The Battle Hymn of the Kindergarten Republic
And then came the stars.
A quick mention of the "star chart," more a behavior modification tool than a rewards chart, to help give kids a nudge in the right direction towards extra-good behaviors or away from the shedding of bad ones. It seemed fair. It seemed...like not a big deal at all. After a week in school every kid had a star or two. The end.
Or, not the end?
One hand is slowly raised in the back - a concern about the star chart. But what if our kid feels bad because he didn't get a star? Then, more questions. Are our kids participating for the right reasons if it's all about the stars? And are the stars fair? And are the stars good? Are the stars a path to low- self-esteem? Are the stars a public school thing because really, we're Waldorf parents and I'm still coping with the fact that we're here [deep breath]? Will stars be the ultimate destruction of our children, in a fight for their eternal souls along with processed foods and those light-up sneakers?
Lines were drawn! The pro-stars versus the no-stars!
I was hoping for blood.
I put $20 down on the mom in the glasses and the purple suede Merrills. She looked like a prize fighter in another life.
Um, wow - this is the most discussion we've ever had about the stars in 15 years, the teacher said.
And I started to feel bad. Because my superhero power is empathy. And it was starting to get awkward in there.
"If it weren't for star stickers, my kids would still be in diapers," I said with a smile. "So, I'm all for them!"
Heads turned. Three people laughed. Maybe two. The rest glared at me like, who the fuck are you, lady, and shut the fuck up. We're trying to have a VERY IMPORTANT STAR FIGHT HERE.
I always make a good first impression.
posted by Mom101 at 7:53 AM
74 Comments:
Love this.
Steph
Ha. That poor teacher.
Oh man, it only gets worse.
Do you happen to remember when I wrote about the attendees of my daughter's birthday party crying because they weren't going to get prizes for NOT winning the sack races and musical chairs?
Those parents (and the teachers, coaches etc) who cave to them, are training kids to expect rewards (and raises and corner offices) just for showing up and breathing.
My DD's teacher hands out tickets for good behavior that can be cashed in at the "prize box" when they get so many. I am all for it but there is also the "teaching materialism" faction of parents. Whatever. If it gets DD to sit down, shut up and learn, use it.
Sounds like my kids UWS public school.
A line like yours would have prompted me to come up afterward and invite you over for a playdate.
Oh, I have been there - as the teacher. What parents don't realize is that I spent days, nay weeks, fretting about that star chart. I didn't want to f*** their kids up, I just wanted some consistent, easily understood way to modify behavior that might distract from another student's learning.
So, guess who's gonna be teacher's favorite parent? That's right, you. You, who had the guts to admit that parents, like teachers, are really only doing the best we can for the kids we love.
Of course, now that I am a parent, I do understand parents more, and occasionally fret about a classroom decision. Sometimes, I even have to take a deep breath, remind myself I cannot and will not be my child's only influence, and relinquish my need for control- for the few things I may consider a negative influence, there will be a thousand more positive ways in which he/she will change my kid.
Good for you for seeing that and brandishing your sword of empathy.
-Abby
My parents were all about the cooperative non competitive thing. Which is great, except you need to get competition a little bit. That is what makes up life unless you live like a hermit.
My daughter's class does a little of both. Individual good behavior gets you stamps and stickers. Group good behavior gets you a PJ party.
I agree with Izzy Mom, you need to teach kids that real life requires real hard work, and you won't get everything for free.
Oh gawd, that poor woman. I imagine being a teacher now is the definition of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario.
I had no idea empathy was a superpower- that's super exciting because all this time I actually thought it was my GD achilles heel. The star fight is a good sign- it means they had NOTHING else to complain about and that was the worst thing they could latch on to- you should be very happy about that :)
Lindsay, I can't wait until the "we should be bringing in organic snacks or fruit only" fight!
And to clarify, I wasn't the only one defending it; a few brave souls stepped up to suggest it wasn't a big deal. I was probably just the only one rolling my eyes visibly at the whole thing.
My girl had bands. Three rubber bands around her wrist. If she was naughty, she lost a band. At the end of the day, they stamped the number of bands she'd had ON HER HAND so everyone could see if she was bad or good and the parents would get the message. I was horrified and still think it's utterly ridiculous for a kindergartner. However, she doesn't seem scarred. I am.
Oh. My. God. The more I hear about public schools in NYC the more I understand why the parenting articles in the NY Times never really resonate with me.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't be exactly like that if I lived there- people adapt to the prevailing culture afterall. But wow, NYC's parenting culture is INTENSE.
I wonder what wackiness will happen when I start school out here in laid back San Diego? Maybe someone will insist that the kids need time for meditation and/or a daily yoga practice?
Anyway, I think you handled it well.
Yes, even the kids who disrupt class and flip over the desks should get stars. So they don't feel bad.
I have taught elementary and high school special education for seven years and every teacher I know has some kind of reward system. It's obviously more pleasant to reward the good than punish the bad, however, I can promise you, you'll get better results that way. Talk about self-esteem, start punishing a kid all day every day and see what happens to their self-esteem.
Is this not real life though? You follow the rules, you do your job correctly, and you are rewarded in the form of a pay check. Hopefully, a big nice one that you were able to negotiate because your third grade teacher taught you critical thinking skills.
I'm sure the teacher breathed a sigh of relief when you said that. I'm sure ytour comment made her night.
Oh, how wonderful!
I still remember the mother at the kindergarten orientation who asked "well, what do you do about the gifted kids?" after the principal talked about resources for struggling kids, and "do you teach foreign languages in elementary school?" - I leaned over to my husband and said "I hate her".
I love this! My daughter is in kindergarten @ private school and instead of getting stars for good deeds they get them as demerits for talking,not listening, etc. its the one thing that my poor kindergartner loves about school. AS of right now, she is the only child without a star. She thinks its awesome.
I can understand both sides of the debate. A reward system is fine I think at that age, I just want to have to keep rewarding them for appropriate behavior ..forever. You know like..they are 13 and I give them a $20 for flushing the toilet!LOL Happy Mothering!
http://motherhoodthetruth.blogspot.com/
I am so with you on the eye roll.
I love this story. And it is happening across the country every evening right now. Our version was pretzels vs. raisins. Good snack choices? Or polluted sugar bombs? Go.
"Well since we are no longer allowed to beat your children or deprive them of lunchtime we've decided that the star chart is the way to go."
That would have been what I thought in my head. Our kids get "bee bucks" and every two weeks or so they get to go use them in the "store." I love it and so does my daughter. I'm for whatever works.
...they had stars! They actually did. They had stars upon thars!
I'm going to come to your kid's class with my Star On and Star Off machines and make a fortune from the parents.
Our daughter's Kindergarten class has cards - green, yellow, orange, and red. Stay green all day, you get a sticker. Green all week you get a big sticker. Green all month you get lunch with the teacher (I think). It's great, and we've actually made cards for both kids at home too.
As far as I can tell from the other parents, none of the kids feel bad about themselves if they don't get the sticker. Disappointed? Yes. But they understand it's THEIR choice to be good or not.
My daughter's kindergarten teacher last year used a color-coded system: if they came home at the end of the day on green it meant they'd ended their day on a good behavior note. Ending on yellow meant they'd somehow messed up and hadn't had a chance to redeem themselves. Red meant there were some serious issues at hand, because her teacher always tried to "catch" someone behaving in order to bump them up a color.
Their teacher also grouped them into table-teams; once a month she shifted the kids around so that the well-behaved ones weren't always stuck with the troublemakers. Each table had a chance to prove themselves as a group who worked together toward pizza parties, so she had the teamwork and individual behavior incentives going for her.
At the beginning of the year she told me that she didn't do small daily incentives, like stickers or candy or toys. Her incentives were going home on green and some days being able to spend more time outside at recess. I liked it, and I never heard other parents complaining. But then again, we were living on a military base so perhaps we don't coddle our kids as much as civilians?
Of course, now that I'm homeschooling my daughter this year, we're using a star system ourselves. :-)
My daughter's kindergarten has a similar system to the last two commenters, with green, yellow, and red. Although my daughter just loves to come home and tell me about the boy who regularly spends all day in the red, I redirect her to her own color and why she got it (usually green, she's a good kid).
And that teacher is going to remember you for being able to a) make a joke and b) be realistic. Stars don't kill or build self-esteem — parents do. And not by handing out rewards for every little thing their darlings get right either. Check out Nurtureshock some time. It's an eye-opener.
Man, good for you for speaking up! That teacher is trying to manage a large classroom...she needs tools to do so. Sounds to me like she found one that works for her. If they want Waldorf, they need to dish out the money and pay for Waldorf, end of story.
Sorry, probably too blunt. Just wanted to say I would 've done the same thing :)
I think that any kindergarten teacher getting push-back about her good behavior incentive system should invite that parent to come in and run the class for a day.
Oh man, can't we just create one classroom made up of the children of sensible bloggers?
We'd find something to fight about but it wouldn't be stars.
You go, girl! I am pro stars, stickers, whatever it takes!! I agree, your statement would have made me want to ask you for a playdate. lol
I think your post was wonderful. Tonight is my kindergarten back to school night, so I can't wait to see how it goes down...
We have a happy face, yellow light, red light and then STAR system. I can't wait to hear the teacher discuss this tonight! I have no doubt there will be *over-parents* in the mix. Maybe I should bring some popcorn!
I'm with Julie. I'd of invited you over for wine and cupcakes after a comment like that.
The star chart is sooooo common in kindergarten. My girls both had it. One was in kindergarten in LA, one here. Shrug. People just like to find things to nit pick.
There must be some kind of rule about if you get X number of parents in a room, it simply MUST go off the rails at some point.
Seriously, I had no idea a simple sticker chart could bring up such controversy!
All hail the sticker chart!
In our little orientation, I made some jokes about the kids getting to use their knife skills. Nobody laughed. Dude, I was talking APPLES, not body parts.
LOL I haven't yet attended my fourth Kindergarten "orientation" Night yet, this joyous occasion is saved until October 4th. However since I've BTDT with the 3 boys I can clearly see where it's going to go. I think my daughter is the only one who has older sibs and so most of these parents are still starry eyed "Awwwww my baby is in Kindergarten." However I'm in New Jersey and I'm sure the star chart which is used and traded in for treasure box loot is going to be a hot topic.
However I can tell the unintiated by 4th grade (the BTS night I attended last night) most of the parents are no longer convinced that Little Gideon or Madison are the next Doogie Howser and as such allow themselves to be led through in cattle chute fashion asking no questions, and causing no eye rolling.
Are they yellow six-pointed stars? Because for some reason when I suggested that at my kids school, people became really animated.
I hope that when my daughter goes to school that parent night is filled with mom's just like you! Really.
Oh - and the star chart - we have something similar and sometimes on the weekend, we can't even get to lunch time without it and the way it quickly corrects naughty behavior and the sassy mouth of a 3 year old.
Elisabeth, another mom in the room said the same thing, also with a daughter in 4th grade. Hm, maybe you BTDT moms have a point?
Nah. Not possible. We newbies know it all.
I like your star chart better than our red, yellow, green chart. Because my kid is color blind and he has no idea what color he is on ever.
Also, tonight is my back to school night and the first parent who asks what they do with the "exceptionally gifted children" I might hit.
*snicker*
Awesome.
Mine eyes have seen the GLO-ry of the shiny tinfoil star...
Whatever works. I'm amazed at what things can make parents get their panties in a wad.
BTW, my kid is the one who is causing all the trouble. No matter where it is. Just thought you should know that. You know, in case someone tries to blame *your* kid.
I was asked by the school teacher AND the principal NOT to attend Back to School night this year. My reputation must precede me.
Apparently I've been around the block one too many times and they find my visible eye rolling and constant snickering distracting and it freaks out the newbie parents.
Since I've heard it all before, I obliged them. After all, I can eye roll and rebel rouse at the monthly school council meetings. Heh.
I love my small town school.
All my kids ever got were dots.
Because, who cares, really, if you don't get a dot and, if you did, those kids would NEVER make it here in Jersey!
Our kid's kindergarten is doing the green/yellow/red card thing, and if they do something really spectacular they get a purple -- the school's (and basically the town's) color. My thought is that those teachers have gone through years and years of learning what works and what doesn't... I can only learn from their greatness ;-)
Thank goodness my community is a bunch of robots who nod and smile at whatever the teacher says.
(That is, unless *their* child gets in trouble or isn't deemed the most perfect-wonderful being on the planet. Then it is a whole new ballgame.)
My kids "flip cards" if they misbehave (the lowest one is red so if you flip down to that, you are expelled) take-if-bad/add-if-good marbles to a jar (when the jar is filled they get a party) and earn fake money (by sharpening pencils, etc) that can be used to purchase prizes (in 4th grade it is an auction, so a bit more complex.)
So - we're up to our ears in various rewards systems here. And the kids LOVE it. AND, apparently they are both super-awesomely-good at school. Plus, since my 4th grader earns money for doing his homework (more money if it is done well) he actually cares about his homework.
It is actually a "real life" scenario after all, because one would suppose a better job would be rewarded (higher salary, promotion) whereas a lackluster job would not. (Sure, we know it isn't that cut and dried, but...)
Eh. Whatever. It is working.
My kids' kindergarten teacher (who has been around over 20 years and is AWESOME!!!) had a "choice box." It was a little dry erase board and if you made a "wrong choice" your name went in it. My kids never got in the choice box! And the school gave out stickers the kids wore saying "ask me about blah blah blah" and they would tell you that they helped clean up or behaved in line at lunch or whatever.
I live in CT and grew up in OK. I think I would kicking Waldorf mommy in the taco. I can't STAND people like that. We are in New Haven now, at a magnet school. There is no snobbery (that I have seen) there. Probably because the ghetto moms would pop a cap in Waldorf momma's ass. Or maybe its just a nice school. I don't know.
If these parents are this worried about the stars, how are they going to cope with the serious issues in their kid's lives, you know like when they don't get into Harvard because their kindergarten teacher ruined their self-esteem?
After I posted my last comment, a friend reminded me that there is in fact at least one elementary school in LA that starts the day with yoga exercises.
And I'm enough of a Californian now it sounds like a good idea to me. Hey, I wish I could start my work day with some nice Sun Salutations instead of a steaming pile of nonsense in my inbox.
Really, is no one going to bring up The Sneeches? Dr. Seuss would have known exactly how to deal with those parents-- he'd have "put start upon thars"!
I'd have suggested non-organic mainstream MnMs.
Or corporal punishment. What a good old smack on the ass will do instead of stars.
To the "But what if our kid feels bad because he didn't get a star?" camp - GOOD! He should feel bad. Shape up next time, buddy. :)
As someone who recently had to work with a large group of Millenials who all expected large raises, bonuses, and other perks simply for showing up to work, I'm very much on the side of the fence that believes kids should learn what it's like to be disappointed by the consequences of their own actions. Yes, there should be a losing team in the soccer game too. Not everyone wins every time. That's life, kids.
I love the story though... hilarious that there would be an all-out star battle at kindergarten. Good lord I hope I don't have to deal with that here. We'll see I guess.
Wow. You just described so much of my experience as an NYC public school teacher. And why we got the f*** out of dodge.
GO STARS!
Marinka's comment just made me laugh out loud. As usual.
Yet another brilliantly funny post. I'm a public school teacher. I am not above "bribery." I teach high school, so my bribery comes in the form of homework passes and candy instead of stickers.
Oh, for the love of God. And here I am using swedish fish to bribe my kid to pee in the potty. (smacks forehead with palm of hand.)
I love when the grandparents talk nonchalantly about their teachers whacking their knuckles with a ruler. Take that, star sticker.
I feel terrible that I don't even KNOW what behavior system is used in Lucas' kindergarten class. (Sure hope it's not "the box") And I had to google Waldorf. We aint got no fancy skools out yonder.
Mrs. Q, I had to google Waldorf too. Here I was thinking it was just salad.
How can my sister not know Waldorf and I am a homeschooler? I'm going to sit her down tomorrow.
Oh, and as for the stars: that poor teacher. And, Liz, I love your line.
Unfortunately, what the teacher should have said, sweetly, is, "It's either stars or a ruler across the knuckles, but we've decided to start with this first".
But, alas, I think "sense of humor" has gone out the window with a lot of people.
Maybe the kids who don't get stars should behave better. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with an incentive for being good. That poor teacher...
So with you, can you see my eyes rolling right now? Another shining example of what seems to be off in our world today. I bet most of us here survived disappointment in life and learned to GROW from it. How can these kids learn that life skill if they never experience the challenge of having to EARN something. God love that teacher! They are stars people, kids love stars, want stars, let's use POSITIVE reinforcement to change behavior.
And they wonder why bullying has become so pervasive...
The question I always have is "WHO are those parents?". I hear about them, but everyone I know makes fun of them! I thought they were urban legend!
Well done. You get TWO stars. :)
Love it. Julian earned a "gold leaf" award in the first week of school, which is a school-wide star system. He confessed that he wasn't really doing anything great, but was not doing anything wrong. Since he's such a rule follower to begin with, neither he nor we were impressed with his award.
Our takeaway is that "don't rock the boat" is being strategically reinforced by this system.
Therefore, if he grows up to lack creativity and chutzpah, I will file a lawsuit against the school.
I love your response. We have to stop rewarding our kids for showing up. That's what has brought about this generation of entitled, bratty kids. When I was a kid (lo, those many years ago), I didn't get a trophy for showing up at my soccer games and neglecting to make a single goal. It didn't make me more competitive (I still lack that gene), but it did teach me that I won't be rewarded for not doing my job. And when my kid starts kindergarten, I hope the school has a similar system. Yes, we want to recognize effort and boost a kid's self esteem, but we can't be so afraid of hurt feelings that true excellence goes unrecognized in the jumble.
Wow, does this make me glad to teach 4th grade and not kindergarten! I use individual, small group, and whole-class rewards and every year the parents just nod along as I explain it. No one ever asks me what happens if their kid feels bad for not getting a scout award (the indiv. incentive, which is seriously a piece of paper with fun facts on it about whatever we're studying). I think by grade 4 they have finally realized that a) the kids need to earn rewards and b) they can't handle 25 10-year-olds like I can, so they shouldn't throw stones). Kudos to all the K teachers out there who train the parents so my BTS nights are pleasant! And kudos to the parents who recognize what is and is not a big deal, like you, Lyz!
P.S, I think you should email the link to this post to Thalia's teacher. You will be her Favorite Parent all year. : )
I would have been one of the "laughers". And I might have left if I'd been a part of those "star wars". Ugh. Really people, REALLY????
STAR WARS!
Elaine, that's genius. That should have been the post title. Why don't I just send you my password and you can write here tomorrow?
We have rocketships and "Gonipesos"/bucks and all sorts of rewards...stickers for substitues since they are so worried about keeping the kids in line. Sometimes I stress about the fact the kids are mostly rewarded/punished for being quiet versus talking, but I get over it. I loved, though, that my son's teacher was excited that he made it down to red (bad!) once cuz while she has to follow the rules, I think secretly enjoys seeing the "good" kids break them once in a while.
Wow. I sort of wish some of these parents could spend a week dealing with my local public school. You know, the one that couldn't tell me WHICH BUS STOP they were going to drop my KINDERGARTENER off at the first day he rode the bus. Also the one where the teacher made him skip recess as punishment for taking a longer time than other kids to write words on worksheets even though he has a documented, medically diagnosed fine motor skills delay.
After a couple of months of such a quality educational experience, by the time we gave up and enrolled in private school, let's just say I'd gained some perspective on the relative importance of gold stars.
How much did I love this? Was just mulling over the fact that at my son's school, at Back-to-School Night! the parents got into a screaming fight with the new principal about drop-off policies. Almost came to fisticuffs. Obviously, none of them got gold stars.
Well thank you for that morning laughter!
I've gotten to the point now where all I can do is laugh- you just can't reason with someone like that!
It's why I can't be a room mom anymore, it kills me that kindergartners are doing the same craft as 5th graders at halloween parties because joey might see suzy on the bus and get their feelings hurt or create jealousy if one has a better or cooler paper plate craft! OMG it's called LIFE-
My son's kindergarten class used the color chart as some people have described. It was THE reason he hated school. Sensitive little guy couldn't stop obsessing about getting moved down to yellow, etc. Maybe stars would have worked better? Or would he have obsessed about those, too? I have a lot of sympathy for teachers, and I know they work terribly hard. But still, it's my job to advocate for my son, because who else will?
Yeah, it's this sort of thing that always got me in trouble at PTA meetings...
Thanks from one teacher to a brilliant mom! Hey, in 4th grade they still TURN their work in to see what I might put on it. Finishing work is the first battle.
PS - I had 3/23 parents show up at curriculum night. I would have been thrilled to answer ANY questions.
I love your empathic way and I love the way you look at life!
Oh gosh! We just had our first "back to school night" for our Pre-K three year old and am totally cracking up at your story. I've already got a few nicknames for the SUPER INTENSE parents. Just glad I don't have to interact all that much with them. And your superpower? Totally awesome! -Monica
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